Curse

Trub · Jan 12, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

i'm wondering why, for 6 months, did this admin-only outpost allow access to, and not draw attention from; random people zoning into, and out of it. i meen it was an admin-testing-outpost only.. yet for 6 months they didnt notice anything going on in their own test outpost.. with all of their logs and people reporting it..

Faith in human common sense maybe?
Why should the Dev's post guard dogs at their gates, when as you stated....ALL those people zoning in and out of it, would have told someone...and instead of being greedy and exploiting this, would have stayed away AFTER 'someone' reported the 'bug'?

Blackhearted · Jan 12, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

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Originally Posted by dracolord

Well, you knew it was wrong, you did it anyways, and now you are asking to come back? If I was Anet, i'd ban your IP entirely, looks like you have it light.

And what would that do? IP bans are laughably easy to get around.

Clait · Jan 12, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealFi

The general opinion (with a few exceptions) seems to be:
__

Permanent ban the ones who used the hack to gain access to this "non existent outpost", remove completly or change the ban to a 300 hours one for the accounts who got brought in there and used the exploit - but didnt use the hack themselves to gain entrance.
__

Two of my friends went there once, they didnt get banned.
One of my friends went there once, or he was dragged along, and got banned.
Two of my other friends also went there not once, but twice (and only killed the big boss once, mind you) and got a permanent ban.

I dont see a pattern. =)

There isn't a pattern. Anet wont say the standard they used for banning. Visit it once or a thousand times, still means a perma ban.

Messy · Jan 12, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

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Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

is there any screenies of this outpost? i'd love to see it. just to see whats in a uberness anet only area.

Screenies here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhearted

And what would that do? IP bans are laughably easy to get around.

It is this attitude that got you into this mess in the first place. Trying to cut corners, trying to get around things... only this time you landed in the wrong place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

There isn't a pattern. Anet wont say the standard they used for banning. Visit it once or a thousand times, still means a perma ban.

not once, not twice, not three times, not 4 times....

Clait · Jan 12, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

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Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

dumbest thing they did was keep it secret to be honest. They spent months farming this, and keep it between around 200 people. If after they found this exploit, they started ferry everyone there, then it isn't a matter of a few hundred people, it become thousands, and anet can't ban thousands of accounts, it would be a PR nightmare.
Also look at the farming forum, alot of farmers love show off their epeens. Only when it seem not legit people quiet up because they don't want it to get nerfed.

Could also be that if too many people knew, armbrace prices would be liquidated. One only needs to look at the dead sword to realize the point I'm making.

Clait · Jan 12, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

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Originally Posted by tmakinen

*sigh*

Why are people still making appeals here? The community doesn't have game logs neither doesn't it have the power to ban or unban anybody. Those who do have better things to do than read 80+ pages of QQ.

Maybe because Anet hasn't been completely truthful stating: "we do not terminate accounts without careful consideration, and we do conduct extensive research to assure that we are acting appropriately before a termination is enacted." If that was true, why did all appeals get the SAME response in period of 10 minutes after sending in a support ticket? The other point is, if they had considered this why is that statement the same as the on in the FAQ?

Quote:

Permanent Account Terminations

Obviously, we do not terminate the accounts of Guild Wars players without cause. We exercise careful judgment in every case of an account termination, and we will use the mark system instead of outright account termination if that seems sufficient to address the misbehavior. However, we will review breaches of the Rules of Conduct and the User Agreement with close attention to the most flagrant forms of rules abuse. In instances like these, particularly when we perceive a risk of substantial real or potential harm to the Guild Wars community or to the game’s stability, an account can and will be permanently terminated.

Trub · Jan 12, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Permanent Account Terminations

Obviously, we do not terminate the accounts of Guild Wars players without cause. We exercise careful judgment in every case of an account termination, and we will use the mark system instead of outright account termination if that seems sufficient to address the misbehavior. However, we will review breaches of the Rules of Conduct and the User Agreement with close attention to the most flagrant forms of rules abuse. In instances like these, particularly when we perceive a risk of substantial real or potential harm to the Guild Wars community or to the game’s stability, an account can and will be permanently terminated.
Looks good to me?

seut · Jan 12, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

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Originally Posted by leprekan

Not too hidden. If said outpost was meant for testing only .. why did they bother actually building a graphic for it? Why was it named Mallyx's Ebony Citadel (hint: a dev only outpost wouldn't need a name)? Why was there an enter mission button? You Sir cannot answer these questions.

Such hidden outposts seem to be necessary for missions that are started through NPCs (Gaile hinted at that). I would guess that inside the core of NF missions are missions as we know them from Prophecies/Factions and all a normal player sees is the wrapping with the NPC actually pressing the "Enter Mission"-button of the internal/hidden mission. It's kind of a twilight zone.
Testing for eligibility seems to be done in the outer shell, thus you could face Mallyx without completing the other quest parts again. To be able to get ferried into this forbidden dimension you need to get bypassed by the NPC once (same as urgoz/deep).

maraxusofk · Jan 12, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

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Originally Posted by turin9

-When the big duping exploit happened not to long ago, hardly anyone besides the original ppl who discovered the duping method were banned, even though thousands profited off of it.

lol this is so far from the truth. all the original people who discovered the duping were NOT banned. it was the people who abused it during that last week of duping were banned, b/c anet only had the manpower to go back a few days to verify all who had abused the duping. they cant possibly go back several months worth of data to check. this is why dupers are still around and u STILL see massive amounts of ambraces floating around.

plz learn ur facts before speak. k thkxbai

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiFole

sorry again for being french~

lol this made me laugh.

Clait · Jan 12, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

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Originally Posted by Antheus

Know which exploits are bannable, and which are harmless. If you can't tell, don't use any shortcuts of any kind.

One hundred and seventeen people. That is all. There's less people in a single instance of a city. Would you notice if one of Lion's arch district's vanished?

Maybe if Anet took the time to define what an exploit is...

With that logic, its ok if 1,000,000 people get away with murder.. but if its only a few hundred then its not.

Clait · Jan 12, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

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Originally Posted by Banned was Erin

I too am among the 117 that outsiders have come to despise as a result of the outright lies that have been told to the general public. Believe us or not, let it be known that we are not hackers. I teach math for a living, I’m not some computer whiz that would even have the first idea on how to hack a game. If someone with as little computer knowledge as me has the ability to hack a sophisticated gaming system such as Guild Wars, I think they have far larger issues to look at. I personally would be weary of giving them any of your credit card information if this is the kind of security they have in place…“hacked” by 117 people and it took them months to do anything about it.

You want to know how little they actually know about what is going on? They have sent private messages to some of us 117 asking us about how we did this. This is, of course, after receiving emails from support saying logs have been rigorously reviewed and they know exactly what we did, and how many times we did it. Seems rather contradictory on their part. If you know what we did and how often we did it so well, why are you having to ask us how to use this glitch?

You want to know another lie that has continued to be upheld as truth? That we had to do this repeatedly and an excessive number of times for it to result in a ban. A close friend of mine who had a character on an alternate account saved to the town, that never even did the mission once, had their account banned. So what is this lie about you must have done the mission at least 4 times for it to result in a ban? Once again this shows how careless they have been in the information they throw out there to the rest of you.

It is absolutely despicable that a formal apology has not been issued for those who have had both their online and real life character defamed by the lies that have been posted about us. They know that we are not hackers, yet they continue to label us as so. If you want to hold us accountable for our actions, hold them accountable for their libel as well. Not a single one of us hacked this game at any point. Apparently many of you cannot grasp that concept because of the lies that have been told about us, but I swear to you it is the truth, and I cannot emphasize this point enough.

This town which we visited was left in the game from hen beta testers were using it. We in no way had to hack Guild Wars to visit it. It was a real location in the game. It showed up on our maps as the Domain of Anguish. There was a button that allowed us to start the mission. We had to fight through the entire mission, just as you would if you entered Citadel any other way. Does that honestly seem like anything was hacked? No. We traveled to this location via our guild hall much as people have ferried to Urgoz, The Deep and various other locations. Being a party leader did not mean you hacked anything, for I at times had been a party leader. The only requirement to enter this town was that you had beat all four areas of DoA, and Mallyx at least once the old fashion way.

Like many others who were banned, I had no need to exploit this glitch for money. I had nearly 30 maxed titles, stacks of legitimately earned ectos in the bank, money in storage, FoW armor, completely runed out and equipped heroes, etc, etc. For nearly two years, and over a span of more than 4500 hours, I never participated in anything remotely in breach of the User Agreement. I have never sought to undermine or endanger any aspect of this game, I have only ever sought so have fun with individuals I have become very close with since I started.

At this point it is not even about the termination of my account, but the fact that I, as well as friends that are very dear to me, have repeatedly been subjugated to defamation of their character. I am not asking for my account to be returned, but I am asking that they step up and admit they lied to you all when they said we hacked, and also that you had to do this mission at least 4 times to be banned. Please tell these people the truth, because clearly they do not listen when it comes from us.

Exactly.

This will be both my first, last, and only comment on this matter. I have seen from previous posts, it doesn’t seem to matter what the truth is, people have already made up their minds on what to believe in this matter. Everything I have said has been completely truthful, it is your choice to believe it or continue to listen to the lies.

Summarizes much of what we have been trying to get across to the community.

SurrealFi · Jan 12, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Hey, untill this investigation is over and done, no one will truly know how this happened except for the people starting the mallyx-glitch. So stop for a moment or two, hope for the best and please just stay calm... Take a cookie or two. =) I'm sure A-Net will restore quite a few of the accounts when this is over, but it will never happen if we all behave like infants and say "QQ more".

___

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

There isn't a pattern. Anet wont say the standard they used for banning. Visit it once or a thousand times, still means a perma ban.

And yet A-Net claims to have checked the logs on a number of occations to make sure people being "brought" to the outpost wouldnt face the perma-ban. It's not true, at least not for all of the "Famous 117". Fact: You don't know for sure, but I do.
__

I can only express my hope that the so called hackers (if there are any?) will get the appropriate punishment, and the rest will have their accounts restored, as a number of my friends.

And for everyone saying QQ more.. One day, this will happen to you. =) Probably not in the closest future, probably not even in GW, but you will sooner or later get in the exact same position as the Famous 117. Two sides, you being fooled and then excluded. And when that day comes, you'll feel confused and upset aswell. But no one will come and help you, not even stop for a second to think "Hey, maybe we should consider this..." They're just interested in flaming =)

Clait · Jan 12, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

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Originally Posted by Bryant Again

...And you think they would intentionally damage their own game, easily compromising the trust of the playerbase, which includes everyone from you and me to IGN and other game sites, and thus losing sales?????

Intentionally or not, this situation is calling them out. Trust has been lost in the dedicated people that have been banned. Trust has been lost in those that want a standard of what an exploit is. Trust has been lost in the community, since without a standard.. anything can be considered an exploit and be banned.

Antheus · Jan 12, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

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Originally Posted by Clait

Summarizes much of what we have been trying to get across to the community.

Too bad it's just a bunch of long-winded nonsense that is completely false - players involved have been lying through their teeth from page one of this thread - and admitted to it a few pages later.

It was established already that players that got banned have exploited this repeatedly while being fully aware of what they were doing.

If someone has 30 titles and 4500 hours of gameplay, it's impossible not to know it was an exploit. Cannot be done. So let's not play the noob card here.

Quote:

Intentionally or not, this situation is calling them out. Trust has been lost in the dedicated people that have been banned. Trust has been lost in those that want a standard of what an exploit is. Trust has been lost in the community, since without a standard.. anything can be considered an exploit and be banned.

No, it has reinforced the trust into Anet.

Anet has been far too slow on bans, and this just goes to show that they can wield the ban bat as appropriate.

ElinoraNeSangre · Jan 12, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Question: Can anyone here say they found this themselves and was not shown it by another person? Unless that person can come forward, there can be no proof that there was no hacking (although I maintain the hacker point is edging towards irrelevant, exploiting a bug is exploiting a bug). However, I also understand the frustration that this group got a ban when many others pulled stuff off and got away with it. It's got to be pretty lousy sitting out there banned when people who made a much bigger impact the economy are still playing away.

I also would like to point out (for what it's worth) that ANet also has all the chat records for everyone - if someone exploited this and outright said that it's a bug or a glitch or anything, it's admitting that it is. Or exclamations of surprise that suggest this is out of the ordinary.

On the consumer front, ANet has lawyers. They've said as much. Do you really think that none of what they can and can't do legally was not run past them? Any company that is distributing a product on this scale has lawyers for consulting, and I can assure you that ANet knows exactly what they can and can't do. What they can definately do legally is give you a EULA which is their terms to play, which everyone agreed to, which says that you can be banned for exploiting a bug.

Lastly, I do like the idea that someone mentioned about putting up some kind of message about it being a development area and that players should not be there. If they were to ignore it, that makes it clear that they were warned and that they KNOW full well what it is. Heck the message could even consist of "if you have reached this area, contact support". The problem is, could they find all the areas they'd need to put something like this? That's a little harder. And would it really matter given all the others ways people exploit the game? This is just one way of doing it.

Puritans Aid · Jan 12, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I am assuming an awful lot of people remember me, likely as Puritans AID, I have had the username for nearly 3 years, since beta, and have been a hugely helpful person in this game. I am assuming, that A NET doesnt give a F@#$ about anyone, no matter how clean their record, and how deep their aparent ignorance of DOA>

Either way ERIN got banned too? OMG.. Wow.. YOU , THE GW COMMUNITY< REALLY has NO IDEA HOW MANY GREAT GREAT clean playing players got banned. I am now VERY SERIOUSLY doubtfull that its only 117. Perhaps another lie spun by A NET>

Anyway, Heres Hopeing someone does something to prove to A NET our ignorance, and we get our accounts back.
IF NOT ,
to the rest of you, Heres hoping you dont get banned for ferrying people to sunspear docks or whatever its called, its a bannable offense according to gayle gray, yet IM IN KAMADAN right now and theres 3 ppl offering it for 500 gold each..

SO GO ahead, gaile, ban everyone whos ferried anyone, LOL you wont have anyone left playing your game, OH wait maybe you dont care, you already got your money right?
Puritan

Drop of Fear · Jan 12, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

I am assuming an awful lot of people remember me, likely as Puritans AID, I have had the username for nearly 3 years, since beta, and have been a hugely helpful person in this game. I am assuming, that A NET doesnt give a F@#$ about anyone, no matter how clean their record, and how deep their aparent ignorance of DOA>

Either way ERIN got banned too? OMG.. Wow.. YOU , THE GW COMMUNITY< REALLY has NO IDEA HOW MANY GREAT GREAT clean playing players got banned. I am now VERY SERIOUSLY doubtfull that its only 117. Perhaps another lie spun by A NET>

Anyway, Heres Hopeing someone does something to prove to A NET our ignorance, and we get our accounts back.
IF NOT ,
to the rest of you, Heres hoping you dont get banned for ferrying people to sunspear docks or whatever its called, its a bannable offense according to gayle gray, yet IM IN KAMADAN right now and theres 3 ppl offering it for 500 gold each..

SO GO ahead, gaile, ban everyone whos ferried anyone, LOL you wont have anyone left playing your game, OH wait maybe you dont care, you already got your money right?
Puritan

gaile has been in kamadan during the "guild hall map to anywhere hole" to tell players not to use THAT hole.
as for consulate docks, it has been stated by a couple of a.net employers that it's intented to work like that, to allow players who want to create multiple characters to go faster and reach the mainland, just like the droks run is there to allow players to skip a big portion of gw non level 20 content if they want to.

less ranting, more facts

ElinoraNeSangre · Jan 12, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

These people were not ignorant:

They knew exactly what, why and how they were doing it. They know exactly why they were banned. Don't fall for the "I didn't know I wasn't supposed to" routine.

Don't worry, I'm not buying it

But no one could claim ignorance that way.

Antheus · Jan 12, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

I am assuming an awful lot of people remember me, likely as Puritans AID, I have had the username for nearly 3 years, since beta, and have been a hugely helpful person in this game. I am assuming, that A NET doesnt give a F@#$ about anyone, no matter how clean their record, and how deep their aparent ignorance of DOA>

Either way ERIN got banned too? OMG.. Wow.. YOU , THE GW COMMUNITY< REALLY has NO IDEA HOW MANY GREAT GREAT clean playing players got banned. I am now VERY SERIOUSLY doubtfull that its only 117. Perhaps another lie spun by A NET>

Here's a thought - let's make players with maxed KoaBD unbannable, since they're such a great contribution to GW community.

Quote:

Heres hoping you dont get banned for ferrying people to sunspear docks or whatever its called, its a bannable offense according to gayle gray, yet IM IN KAMADAN right now and theres 3 ppl offering it for 500 gold each..

That's not perma-bannable offense.

Clait · Jan 12, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

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Originally Posted by Trub

*sigh*
If you require MORE answers from ANet, and NCsoft....print off the response .

Quote:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting the PlayNC Game Support Team.

We have received your message regarding your account termination. We have researched that termination and have discovered that your account was involved in the repeated use of a recent game exploit that could have had an extremely negative impact upon Guild Wars and the game economy.

As you are undoubtedly aware, we do not terminate accounts without careful consideration, and we do conduct extensive research to assure that we are acting appropriately before a termination is enacted. In the case of your account, our records show that your account was used to repeatedly take advantage of the serious game exploit mentioned above. We had no choice but to permanently close the account.

We are regretful for the necessity of this decision, but we act, as always, in the best interests of the game and its community of players.

Regards,
The PlayNC Game Support Team

This is the response anyone that sent in a support ticket received. It answers nothing.